Mitchy
03-03-2006, 08:25 PM
Anyway, sorry for everyone that wrote me asking for pictures, info, and just in general on what I ran into, I promised you info, but none surfaced, anyway. I have time now, so why not celebrate with a writeup.
First off, I started off with a 120,000km m10 engined car, pretty standard.
I used megasquirt, I knew I would need to use such a device to get the engine actually working, as using ITB units with the stock engine management would be close to impossible.
Now, the megasquirt installation is fairly simple.
I used MSnS, and I recently loaded the 029 software, and I'm using EDIS for spark.
There is more than enough room behind the front pully to mount the EDIS wheel, and I personnally fabricated 3 clamps spaced 120* appart, that can clamp the wheel onto the pulley. using loctite whereever possible.
The mount for the EDIS sensor is fairly straightforward, and I may post a picture when I'm home next.
wiring was simple, it look me several days of after work to wire everything, I used all stock gm sensors, and had many connectors laying around.
As I bought the EDIS gear from BOOSTENGINEERING, I also receved the "shock" sensor to shut the fuel pump off, I highly suggest it, I have it mounted to the stock afm holder, suprisingly it's not in too high of a shock area, and It has only triggered once by a bump, this is understandable, and I feel that the sensitivity is perfect for any type of crash.
I'm going to assume you guys know how to wire and install the megasquirt, every engine is the same, so no suprises.
Onward to the actual ITB unit...
Before starting, disassemble the full unit, I used 2003 GSX-R 750 TB units, and they use a secondary butterfly array to control power delivery... junk it, just throw it aside. sell it on e-bay, or give it to charity.
Ok, first, I located a 320i stub manifold, they were on late 70's 320i-4 cars, which used the m10, you should try to source them from any m30 groups, as they use the runners from these manifolds as an upgrade. they have no use for the piece you need.
I then took a piece of 3/4 inch aluminum, and drilled holes (very precisely) to match that of the stub manifold.
I was lucky enough to be given the rubber stubs that the ITBs used to mount on the engine, so I then analysed the stub manifold, adapter plate, and the rubber mounts to see if it was possible to drill and tap and thus, use these rubber pieces.
When you do this, you need to do the #1 and #4 cyls due to the need for a PERFECTLY straight line, any mistake here will make the ITBs hard to sync.
then drill for the other two from this, and cut the adapter plate, port/polish for good flow (a few mins with a die grinder) now fit a gasket inbetween the two pieces.
go to the nearest parts store, and get 4 o-ring gaskets slightly thicker than the stock units, this is due to the settled nature of the o-rings on my units, and thicker units will hopefully seal better in this case.
Ok, so you should now have a stub manifold with 4 rubber mounts, ready and willing to accept the ITB units, but what about spacing you ask?
I used 03 GSXR 750 units, these separate as 4 single units,
you will need to fit these in the mounts, to observe the magnitude of the spacing, it should be roughly 1/2-3/4 inch, you can either bend the tabs on both the TB units to make up this gap, or strongly weld tabs, I chose to weld the tabs, as I had access to a welder, and I felt it was the easiest.
NOTE: when you weld the tabs, you absolutely cant make the shaft of the TB unit heat up, there are o-ring gaskets in the unit, and these easily melt, leading to sticking, and failure.
use lots of wet rags, and a slow tack type method, always grind the weld to make sure you get a nice clean, strong weld, as you need to put your trust into it when you;re away from home (if the weld between the #3 and #4 cyl breaks, it's kinda obvious that 1,2,3 cyls are going to be idling while your #4 is going to be at whatever throttle position you ask it to be.
Ok, so you can now put the units in the rubber mounts, notice the gap... how can we fill it without complex measurements to find the right spacers???
Well, locate 3 - 1/4inch "ready rod" and more than 25 standard nuts, and 6 locknuts.
now, take a 1/4 inch bit and enlarge the 3 mounting rod holes in each unit, you should now be able to screw nuts between each of the units inorder to space them. You should leave the nuts slack until you're finally ready to get things final. we do this as a very small force causes sticking.
now you should be ready to place them on the car, you try, but uh-oh, we have a clearance issue.
Yeah, it's the coolent line to the inside of the car, not to fear, i brased a copper pipe system into the mix to give me clearance, but you can also create the full system from the waterpump to the cabin. This is one thing I cant say whats best, in some ways I can improve what I've done, but it worked.
There is also a line that went to your old TB for the heater, since I used the original piece, i just looped a hose to each nipple.
ok, so it fits in the car, but what about the throttle,
well, I went to a local shop and ordered the stock gsxr 750 throttle cable,
now, here's a warning, this part is very tricky, and will require some thought.
you need to drill your firewall with a bit that can fit the throttle cable, but not allow the "head" of the cable to come through, it sounds difficult, but it's really not, just tricky. lol.
Ok, you then need to fabricate a piece that can gold the cable to your throttle arm, the picture will help you, but before you drill anything in your throttle arm, take vicegrips and move the piece you fabricate to make sure you have full throttle range, you may need to bend the stop on the upper part of your throttle linkage, to gain the full range of motion, and I kinda expect this to be something a simple guide will fail to cover.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0047.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0045.JPG
ok, so you should have a throttle, but what about the 4 injector holes in that stub manifold.
well, you have two options, if you really want, you can run an 8 injector setup, using the stock units for low rpm, and have your megasquirt activate the second channel on rpm above 4000rpm, and to be honest, this is what I would've done if I had time back. it also lets you use your stock fuel rail, and all you would have to do is brase a nipple into the stock fuel rail to feed fuel into the gsxr fuel rail.
But if you choose to plug the stub manifold, like I did with brass plugs, you'll need to tap them, and then screw in the plugs, sealing with loctite, or JB weld (like I did)
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0023.JPG
You're probably asking how I extended the stock GSX fuel rail
well
if you cut the aluminum pieces, and carefully bevel them for grip, you can use a small piece of INJECTION fuel line, with smooth clamps to extend the pieces. you must use injection line, as there is quite a bit of pressure.
for the feed line, I brased a piece of soft 5/16 transmission line, which is soft steel, I was instructed to use a special type of brase, and of course, using brasing flux for everything.
*see above picture*
Ok,
so you can finally tighten down the units, start with #4, and work outwards, using the lockwashers on the outsides of the assembled unit, first finger tighten them, then test for binding, then proceed to go to the next unit, then finally start to tighten them up, you can use a blue loctite here, as I feel it might need to be adjusted later as part of simple "settling"
Now, you're probably wondering how I got a fuel pressure regulator on there, well, I used the stock one, here is how I rigged it.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0050.JPG
so now, you should have everything wired up,
fuel supply should be good,
no air leaks,
full throttle sweep,
but what about air filters, and that damn TPS???
Well, my unit came with the stock TPS, so I wired that up as per the megasquirt.
and the airfilters I was lucky enough to get a deal on.
you might notice the #4 cyl in this picture:
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0022.JPG
It's just a room issue, but the filters are pretty robust, and should handle it.
What about if you want fast idle???
well, if you look at the following picture, it's what I planned to do, but you really need the TB units in front of you to see, but it uses the vacumm valve all m10 motors have, so all you need is a cheap vac. actuator.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_Diagram.JPG
before you start, you'll need to roughly sync the units, a feeler gauge can work, to determine the size of opening of the TB plate.
Onward to the pictures I have online as of now.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0021.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0022.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0023.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0024.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0025.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0036.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_TURBO%20updt%20051.jpg
^^found one of the mount, dont mind the oil, :P it's from my new turbo installation.
Anyway, I hope I help a few people, If someone could offer some hosting for a few files, I can post my config files, because I doubt in the comming weeks I'll have much time to really answer an influx of requests.
I'd still love to help.
...Mitch
First off, I started off with a 120,000km m10 engined car, pretty standard.
I used megasquirt, I knew I would need to use such a device to get the engine actually working, as using ITB units with the stock engine management would be close to impossible.
Now, the megasquirt installation is fairly simple.
I used MSnS, and I recently loaded the 029 software, and I'm using EDIS for spark.
There is more than enough room behind the front pully to mount the EDIS wheel, and I personnally fabricated 3 clamps spaced 120* appart, that can clamp the wheel onto the pulley. using loctite whereever possible.
The mount for the EDIS sensor is fairly straightforward, and I may post a picture when I'm home next.
wiring was simple, it look me several days of after work to wire everything, I used all stock gm sensors, and had many connectors laying around.
As I bought the EDIS gear from BOOSTENGINEERING, I also receved the "shock" sensor to shut the fuel pump off, I highly suggest it, I have it mounted to the stock afm holder, suprisingly it's not in too high of a shock area, and It has only triggered once by a bump, this is understandable, and I feel that the sensitivity is perfect for any type of crash.
I'm going to assume you guys know how to wire and install the megasquirt, every engine is the same, so no suprises.
Onward to the actual ITB unit...
Before starting, disassemble the full unit, I used 2003 GSX-R 750 TB units, and they use a secondary butterfly array to control power delivery... junk it, just throw it aside. sell it on e-bay, or give it to charity.
Ok, first, I located a 320i stub manifold, they were on late 70's 320i-4 cars, which used the m10, you should try to source them from any m30 groups, as they use the runners from these manifolds as an upgrade. they have no use for the piece you need.
I then took a piece of 3/4 inch aluminum, and drilled holes (very precisely) to match that of the stub manifold.
I was lucky enough to be given the rubber stubs that the ITBs used to mount on the engine, so I then analysed the stub manifold, adapter plate, and the rubber mounts to see if it was possible to drill and tap and thus, use these rubber pieces.
When you do this, you need to do the #1 and #4 cyls due to the need for a PERFECTLY straight line, any mistake here will make the ITBs hard to sync.
then drill for the other two from this, and cut the adapter plate, port/polish for good flow (a few mins with a die grinder) now fit a gasket inbetween the two pieces.
go to the nearest parts store, and get 4 o-ring gaskets slightly thicker than the stock units, this is due to the settled nature of the o-rings on my units, and thicker units will hopefully seal better in this case.
Ok, so you should now have a stub manifold with 4 rubber mounts, ready and willing to accept the ITB units, but what about spacing you ask?
I used 03 GSXR 750 units, these separate as 4 single units,
you will need to fit these in the mounts, to observe the magnitude of the spacing, it should be roughly 1/2-3/4 inch, you can either bend the tabs on both the TB units to make up this gap, or strongly weld tabs, I chose to weld the tabs, as I had access to a welder, and I felt it was the easiest.
NOTE: when you weld the tabs, you absolutely cant make the shaft of the TB unit heat up, there are o-ring gaskets in the unit, and these easily melt, leading to sticking, and failure.
use lots of wet rags, and a slow tack type method, always grind the weld to make sure you get a nice clean, strong weld, as you need to put your trust into it when you;re away from home (if the weld between the #3 and #4 cyl breaks, it's kinda obvious that 1,2,3 cyls are going to be idling while your #4 is going to be at whatever throttle position you ask it to be.
Ok, so you can now put the units in the rubber mounts, notice the gap... how can we fill it without complex measurements to find the right spacers???
Well, locate 3 - 1/4inch "ready rod" and more than 25 standard nuts, and 6 locknuts.
now, take a 1/4 inch bit and enlarge the 3 mounting rod holes in each unit, you should now be able to screw nuts between each of the units inorder to space them. You should leave the nuts slack until you're finally ready to get things final. we do this as a very small force causes sticking.
now you should be ready to place them on the car, you try, but uh-oh, we have a clearance issue.
Yeah, it's the coolent line to the inside of the car, not to fear, i brased a copper pipe system into the mix to give me clearance, but you can also create the full system from the waterpump to the cabin. This is one thing I cant say whats best, in some ways I can improve what I've done, but it worked.
There is also a line that went to your old TB for the heater, since I used the original piece, i just looped a hose to each nipple.
ok, so it fits in the car, but what about the throttle,
well, I went to a local shop and ordered the stock gsxr 750 throttle cable,
now, here's a warning, this part is very tricky, and will require some thought.
you need to drill your firewall with a bit that can fit the throttle cable, but not allow the "head" of the cable to come through, it sounds difficult, but it's really not, just tricky. lol.
Ok, you then need to fabricate a piece that can gold the cable to your throttle arm, the picture will help you, but before you drill anything in your throttle arm, take vicegrips and move the piece you fabricate to make sure you have full throttle range, you may need to bend the stop on the upper part of your throttle linkage, to gain the full range of motion, and I kinda expect this to be something a simple guide will fail to cover.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0047.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0045.JPG
ok, so you should have a throttle, but what about the 4 injector holes in that stub manifold.
well, you have two options, if you really want, you can run an 8 injector setup, using the stock units for low rpm, and have your megasquirt activate the second channel on rpm above 4000rpm, and to be honest, this is what I would've done if I had time back. it also lets you use your stock fuel rail, and all you would have to do is brase a nipple into the stock fuel rail to feed fuel into the gsxr fuel rail.
But if you choose to plug the stub manifold, like I did with brass plugs, you'll need to tap them, and then screw in the plugs, sealing with loctite, or JB weld (like I did)
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0023.JPG
You're probably asking how I extended the stock GSX fuel rail
well
if you cut the aluminum pieces, and carefully bevel them for grip, you can use a small piece of INJECTION fuel line, with smooth clamps to extend the pieces. you must use injection line, as there is quite a bit of pressure.
for the feed line, I brased a piece of soft 5/16 transmission line, which is soft steel, I was instructed to use a special type of brase, and of course, using brasing flux for everything.
*see above picture*
Ok,
so you can finally tighten down the units, start with #4, and work outwards, using the lockwashers on the outsides of the assembled unit, first finger tighten them, then test for binding, then proceed to go to the next unit, then finally start to tighten them up, you can use a blue loctite here, as I feel it might need to be adjusted later as part of simple "settling"
Now, you're probably wondering how I got a fuel pressure regulator on there, well, I used the stock one, here is how I rigged it.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0050.JPG
so now, you should have everything wired up,
fuel supply should be good,
no air leaks,
full throttle sweep,
but what about air filters, and that damn TPS???
Well, my unit came with the stock TPS, so I wired that up as per the megasquirt.
and the airfilters I was lucky enough to get a deal on.
you might notice the #4 cyl in this picture:
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0022.JPG
It's just a room issue, but the filters are pretty robust, and should handle it.
What about if you want fast idle???
well, if you look at the following picture, it's what I planned to do, but you really need the TB units in front of you to see, but it uses the vacumm valve all m10 motors have, so all you need is a cheap vac. actuator.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_Diagram.JPG
before you start, you'll need to roughly sync the units, a feeler gauge can work, to determine the size of opening of the TB plate.
Onward to the pictures I have online as of now.
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0021.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0022.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0023.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0024.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0025.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF0036.JPG
http://www.munhousing.ca/hatcher/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_TURBO%20updt%20051.jpg
^^found one of the mount, dont mind the oil, :P it's from my new turbo installation.
Anyway, I hope I help a few people, If someone could offer some hosting for a few files, I can post my config files, because I doubt in the comming weeks I'll have much time to really answer an influx of requests.
I'd still love to help.
...Mitch